Are Carbs the Problem or a Solution? with Zane Griggs

Transcript

00:00
people getting stuck on low carb and as soon as they go back to eating carbs, they have all their problems come back. That's not fixing it. But why wouldn't people be low carb diet long term? They only go to the bathroom once every 7 to 10 days and they brag about it on social media saying, "I don't eat carbs, so I don't have to go to the bathroom as often." That's our primary form of detoxification. Fiber helps detoxify the gut.

00:26
I'm Veronica Larisova and today I'm joined by Zayn Briggs, a fitness expert for those over 40. This episode is an open debate between two very different perspectives on carbohydrate intake, exploring whether a low carb or a high carb diet is better for metabolic health.

00:47
You are listening to the Chief Life podcast. Zane Griggs, welcome to the Chief Life podcast. Thank you, Veronica. I appreciate it. Good morning. Good morning. I'm so happy to have you here and I'm super excited for this episode because it's different to all the other episodes I've done before where I invite a guest and just quiz them on their topic and don't really interfere. This time we want to have a

01:14
discussion about a topic that we might have slightly different opinion on and I wanted we had few Instagram conversations about it and inerson conversations and beyond and I don't want this to be like you know slamming each other for different opinion. I just want the listeners to get two sides of the story because there is always something true on each side of the story

01:39
and people get sometimes very single-minded and they get obsessively just follow one thing where maybe that one thing that they follow might not be suitable for them and vice versa. So I want to have honest conversation and to start I would like each each of us to explain our stance on the topic and where the logic is. Uh and I didn't even

02:04
say the topic. So the topic is we're talking about high carb versus low carb diet. Um I am proponent of low carb. Um Zane is proponent of high carb and he also transitioned from carnivore to high carb. Right. Low carb. I I was never a okay pure carnivore other than a maybe a a period of my own experimentation but

02:27
never it was just enough for me to know that wasn't for me basically so never never but I was very much a low carb so proponent and coaching for 20 years yeah wow so that is interesting okay so my stance is that I actually and I have four points so bear with me so the first point is I actually don't think that high carb diet is bad I think it can be

02:51
beneficial for some individuals such as power athletes which I even presented at a carnivore conference and that was very controversial. I just don't think that high carb diet is good for an average American or Australian because for example in America in 2025 42% of people were obese 75% were overweight or obese and over 60 people 60% of people live at least with one

03:16
chronic illness and for this reason I don't believe that high carb diet advice is suitable for majority of Americans because low carb diets have been shown to help people with type two diet diabetes, obesity, insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome. So, and there's a lot of evidence behind it and lot of new evidence. My second point is that sometimes people eat a lot of carbs on

03:42
expensive protein and I think that is a very relevant issue in this day and age when a lot of people are on GLP type medications and they're not hungry and then if the little amount of food they eat is only carbs and not enough protein they're waste their muscle and that's a real thing. people wasting a lot of muscle on GLP medications and also for

04:05
athletes. I used to eat carbs around training and racing and I didn't have enough space in my stomach for protein and that affected my health and my recovery. My third point is that fruits and vegetables these days have less than 50% of vitamins and minerals that we think they have. And on the top of it um

04:29
even the or uh like the organic ones obviously don't have glyphosate but the non-organic ones also have glyphosate which you know is uh another damaging thing and it's a big issue in today's society when people get sick from having too much glyphosate in their system and also some people can have problem with eating too much plants because of uh

04:50
anti-nutrients such as oxalate oxalates fits lectins not everyone but a lot of people have issue with that And this is actually the ma main reason I think that meatbased diet in this day and age is the safest and healthiest diet because it's highly nutritious, doesn't have the glyphosate, and it would have been different for our parents, but it's it's

05:13
um it's very relevant for us. And the fourth point is that a low carb diet is more satiating and doesn't cause cravings in most people like high carb diet. So my argument isn't that high carb diet is unhealthy. My argument is that carbohydrate tolerance is highly individual in a population where obesity, insulin resistance, fatty

05:38
liver, and type 2 diabetes are common and that carbohydrate restriction is often an effective therapeutic strategy that deserves far more attention. So I pretty much think that the carbohydrate tolerance majorly depends on your metabolic health and on your your activity level and this this is why I like low carb diet for majority of the population who are sedentary and have

06:03
some metabolic issue. What is your stance? Well, as you see my my cup I am a I have been designated a carb addict by many of probably some of your listeners. Understood. And I did you want want to mention I know you're you're the CEO and and founder of Chief Nutrition.

06:25
I'm not the CEO. I'm the I'm the co-founder and I never You're the co-ounder, not the CEO. I'm sorry. I actually never had any ambition to be CEO. I don't want to be CEO and I'm so grateful that one of my business partners is a great CEO and he really enjoys it. So, it works out well. Does I I understand you you learn you found a role that you enjoy. Yeah, I was I was just traveling back and forth to to California uh this time last week.

06:51
Quick trip and I was stuck in the St. uh LC the uh Salt Lake City airport and I walked in this little shop and there is like several of your bars and snacks, Chief Nutrition sitting right there in the airport and I was like this is amazing. I love to see that my friend Veronica has her products just ready for someone traveling the airport. There's a healthy snack alternative right there. So that was awesome to see.

07:15
Thank you. Um so congratulations getting into the airport. That's where it's needed for sure. Uh so yeah, I was again low carb space for a long time recommended for a lot of my clients for about 20 years until I had my own issues with which I discovered came from my low carb diet. I was doing a lot of intermittent fasting as well. But as I dug into it, I found that this was a common some of the

07:40
common side effects of a long-term co low carb diet, which was slightly elevated blood sugar uh from the metabolic stress of it, uh reduced thyroid function and some disrupted sleep. Yeah. Um and realize digging into this like why do I have high blood sugar? Why do I have this low thyroid if I'm if I'm

08:03
having this optimal diet, right? And uh so there's actually textbook research showing low calorie and low carb diets reduce thyroid function. Um and a lot of that research is on athletes of course young athletes but uh and also it's low calorie. There's a difference between low calorie and low carb and adequate calorie and low carb.

08:26
True. True. But I've seen so since since talking to more people in the keto space who are struggling and keto and carnivore and low carb space who are dealing with the same issues, I'm finding a lot of them have uh the elevated blood sugar, the low thyroid, and I've actually coached a number of them as they add carbs in, they found their blood sugar came down,

08:49
thyroid came up, and uh they actually had more more energy and their sleep improved. And some of these were keto coaches. I have I have a several friends, PhD in nutrition. I'm in a thread with several former keto and carnivore coaches who were one has a PhD in nutrition. Others have years in coaching the keto space. And there was Dr. Lisa Weedderman who made a video

09:12
about 6 months ago about 15 years in carnivore and keto. And when she and she found she was having blood sugar issues, stubborn fat loss. So when she added the carbs in, many of these issues resolved. And so the thing is digging into why that was happening. It was essentially comes down to a level of metabolic stress, an elevation of a hormone called

09:33
glucagon, which many people overlook and don't even test for, which is what drives uh glucose to be released from the liver and drives gluconogenesis. Yeah. Um as well as some fat loss. But regarding uh I want to I want to address your points. Yeah. Okay. That you made.

09:53
I want to say before before you address my point, sorry to jump in. I also don't agree that everyone should be on a keto and carnivore diet for the rest of their lives. I'm talking about low carb. I see carnivore diet as a great solution shortterm or for someone who's got like really severe metabolic issues, but I don't think that someone like me should

10:14
be on a keto and carnivore diet like strictly for a very long period of time. So, I agree with you on that point. So when I'm talking about what I believe in, it is low carb. It's not keto and pure or So how do you define low carb? So what percentage of calories would low carb be in? What's typical is 25% or less of

10:36
calories is considered low carb, but I'd love to know. I would define low carb as anything less than 100 grams of carbs a day or less. 100 grams of carbs a day or less. 100 g or less. Yeah. which is exactly kind of what what I was following when I was having my issues. Right around 100 grams, somewhere between 80 to 100, maybe 120, but averaging right around 100 grams. I

10:57
was right there with a lot of intermittent fasting and a lot of working out. Yeah. Like a lot of power points that I It's important. It's important. It was metabolic stress. That's what probably what tipped it. But I maintained that for like 10 years. Yeah. With these problems, thinking I was doing everything right, but couldn't figure it out. And it was towards the end of that that I started having these symptoms which

11:17
uh were resolved by by fueling better and fueling with more carbs. But as I dug in um well regard let's say the US diet we talk about obesity rate level of um diabetes and fatty liver going on in the US. The US diet is about 50 55% carb. It's also 35% fat. And so that and

11:43
and they're getting this combination because that's about the right the ratio of what of processed food of ultrarocessed food has in it is 55% carb 35% fat and that is 65% of give or take about 60 65% of the average American's diet is made up of ultrarocessed food. So when I'm talking about high carb I'm not talking about ultrarocessed food.

12:05
I'm not donuts are not carbs in my opinion. Donuts are big delivery systems for fat. Yeah. But my point is so I think that the people don't get sick from eating too much rice and potatoes. I never said that. Or fruit as many times. That's true. That's 100% right. If everyone just ate that, they would never become morbidly obese. I think that the people become metabolically unhealthy

12:31
and morbidly obese because of eating ultrarocessed foods. But then because they're metabolically damaged, the high carb diet is not going to help them to get rid of it. While there is a lot of science that low carb diet can do that and can help them with their symptoms of type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome and fatty liver and all these other things that I just named before.

12:58
Great. Okay. So, we've established that. Now, I I we agree on that. Here's where what I found which was surprising. I found a number of interventions going back almost 90 years using high carb diets to reverse diabetes, fatty liver disease, high blood pressure. Um even in one case uh not in one case but in

13:24
one intervention diabetic retinopathy which is the eye damage that comes from diabetes which is supposed to be irreversible. And yet these were being reversed with very high carb, very lowfat diets, anywhere from like 70 to 90% carb diets that were interventions that were not meant necessarily for long-term.

13:45
Uh but they worked to reverse these symptoms by improving glucose oxidation, which means allowing glucose to enter the mitochondria and actually be oxidized. or higher fat consumption or higher fat release from even fat like lipolysis from fat burning can block glucose from entering the mitochondria and gets stuck in gly

14:11
in glycolysis. So several studies where both healthy people and diabetics those who are either mildly diabetic or completely diabetic were able to improve glucose tolerance. Would the diabetics reduce their need for diabetic medications or even come off of them in lower insulin levels, lower blood sugar

14:34
on a very high carb, so 70 to 80% carb diet? Uh with very low fat, like fat around the 10% range, 10 to 12% range. Uh and this has been repeated number of times over the last uh 50 years since the 70s. There was one big one in 1940 that started 1939 1940 called Kempner's rice diet

14:57
which ran out of Duke University for over 70 years which was uh initially started as mostly white rice with some fruit fruit juice and sugar that was so it was basically 94% carb very 2 or 3% protein that came in from the rice and very almost no fat.

15:19
reversing initially started with kidney disease and hypertension. Then it moved into a diabetic uh type two diabetic group reversed that and reverse weight loss. But even since the 70s and there was one in the '90s uh and 2000s in Hawaii, the Hawaii diet which came out 2001, but there was a before that there was a Kauaii group that that were overweight and had uh

15:45
hypertension and some some levels of of insulin resistance and they uh put them on their natural kawaii diet. Mhm. 78% carb, about 8 to 10% fat, and maybe 12% protein. And they reversed their symptoms over 21 days. They lost weight, blood pressure came down, and then they

16:08
continued monitoring them for up to about 7 and 1/2 years, average about 3 to seven years where they found those um improvements were maintained. They did it again in 2001 with a mix of not just Hawaiians but different people from different cultures, different types of food, but that same 70 75% carb diet and reversing symptoms as well. So

16:35
what that showed me was we glucose as you said fruit, potatoes, whole foods, these don't cause diabetes. No, they don't cause obesity. They don't cause. So the question between you and I is we we agree that the cause is ultraprocessed food which thank you because that's logical because we don't have we can look at indigenous populations all over the world and that have 70 and 80% carb

17:02
diets who have incredible heart the best heart health in the world the Chamani tribe in Bolivia. Yes. Right. And they're eating 70% carb 8 to 12% protein very little fat and they have the best heart health in the world. Yes. I agree. I don't think anyone would become morbidly obese from eating too much rice and broccoli for their whole life. Like no, they might be chubby, but

17:26
they'll never become morbidly obese. I I we know that the morbid obesity is from ultra processed foods full stop, right? And diabetes and yeah, sedentry lifestyle. So the question is what's the best approach to reverse it is what we're so before we go to the best approach my other thing that I'm keep thinking about is that a lot of the studies that you mentioned are from 1940s 1950s when we

17:52
did not have the problem with morbid obesity and the metabolic syndrome and all the diseases there now so all the research that I've been reading is from 2020s a lot of it is from 2025 and that shows that low carb diets appear to be the most beneficial for people with insulin resistance, obesity, type 2 diabetes, and metabolic syndrome

18:17
because they consistently improve glycemic control, triglyceride, triglycerides, HDL, and the weight loss markers. So, I think that the sample of population, I'm not saying the research from 1940s and 50s is wrong. I'm just saying that the population back then was not experiencing the severe damage and severe issues that we have in this era.

18:43
Right? There were a couple of those studies the the Hawaiian diet 1991 2001 and there are a lot of current studies with high carb low fat. uh McDougall uh was was probably 70s and 80s uh which we have plenty of obesity but at that point it was growing uh McDougall Ornish uh these kind of interventions

19:08
are taking fat down to 10% of calories and seeing a reversal of all of these symptoms. And I I'm plenty of of you know, I'm not a proponent of of a long-term vegan diet either or a vegan diet or vegetarian diet. We can say, but I will say that when a high-fiber like fruit and vegetable

19:33
vegan diet is implemented with people with diabetes and obesity, you see reversal of disease very quickly. Like in 8 to 12 weeks, you can see a diabetic blood sugar improve. Yeah. Is it because they cut out the ultrarocessed foods? It's also because they improve glucose oxidation. Yeah.

19:55
Which is by removing the fat and they're putting fiber into the diet which I think much of our metabolic disease is driven by um a imbalance in in the microbes in our gut gut population. Yeah. Right. And what feeds what properly feeds our gut is fiber and polyphenols which we see from plant foods. But I

20:20
think there's an underestimation of the amount of the impact that metabolic endotoxmia has on met the metabolic disease. How much that's driving our metabolic disease right now is an imbalancing gut microbes. Uh and the basically the lack of integrity in our gut barrier. So basically what's called leaky gut but it's basically an

20:43
inflammation in the gut which allows the endotoxins to escape and into the body and which impact directly fat tissue liver endthelium and the heart and the brain causing like plaque in the arteries, inflamed fat, liver dysfunction controlling blood sugar and and so forth. And uh

21:07
that's a that's a very overlooked driver of disease. And if we don't address gut health, then we're not addressing we're not we're not addressing our first contact with the outside world. Oh my god. Yeah. That's what people don't know that if your gut is damaged, if you have leaky gut or if you're an endurance

21:28
athlete who performs more than three hours at the time, the high-fat diet actually causes all the issues that you said. But it doesn't happen in healthy person or in person that doesn't exercise for more than three hours at the time. That a high-fat diet doesn't cause that. You're saying no. I think that if someone doesn't have leaky gut and they're not endurance athlete, the high-fat low carb diet as

21:56
yeah, high-fat low carb diet is not going to cause all the endotoxins release and all the things that you mentioned that usually happens in people with leaky gut and with endurance athletes. Well, I think it's it comes the processed food is probably the biggest driver 100%. And you know what also I have to agree on you with you on something and the carnivore people are not going to like this. I'm definitely not fan of eating the butter sticks and so much saturated fat and cream and things like that. I I think that's the worst idea.

22:24
Uh I think that um you know, as I said, the carnivore diet, keto diet, definitely for some people that are ill that needed like epileptics, okay, for people short-term, okay, but I don't think that anyone is going to be healthy for the rest of their life if they eating a block of butter every day. I I 100% agree on that.

22:46
No, I mean what I what I found was that an excessively high-fat diet will cause there's studies showing highfat diets cause insulin resistance and they actually elevate glucagon levels. So I think it was the fat was at a level of I think it was 45% of if it's 45% of calories will elevate a hormone called

23:08
glucagon which is the other hormone that our pancreas makes along with insulin that that controls blood sugar that drives blood sugar up and and then I believe it was a protein diet. So basically the highfat diet of 45% fat increased healthy glucagon levels up by about 115%.

23:32
The high protein diet which was I believe 40% of calories or more being protein drove it up another 70% higher than the highfat diet. Well, where we see high glucagon levels is in type 2 diabetics or people with fatty liver disease. this. So my argument is in type two diabetes or fatty liver disease or even heart disease, we have a predominantly fat-driven metabolism.

23:56
Mhm. their most of their energy is coming from fat. They're stuck in fat burning where fat in and like say type two diabetes or fatty liver disease fat lipolysis so fat burning or fat breakdown is elevated by 50% and glucanogenesis is elevated by 30%. So

24:18
you have all this fat and sugar coming from the liver at the same time into the system and they're stuck in fat burning mode essentially. They can't that's not that is not metabolic flexibility. Obviously in a diabetic state. Now in a healthy body when we take in glucose insulin goes up and that stops or slows down impairs fat burning. That's good.

24:42
That's a good thing because we don't want all of that energy coming into our system one time. that that's called nutrient partitioning that stops the fat release so that we can oxidize glucose properly. It's the diabetic that has the high fat release and the gluconogenesis coming in. And so when I look at a low carb

25:02
diet, I see it almost mimicking the same state as a as diabetes where we have high where we're relying so much on glucanogenesis and fat burning for the majority of our energy. Even even with heart when they're when they're treating heart disease, which is stuck in a fat burning state, they're actually starting to use pharmaceuticals to reduce fat burning

25:24
and increase glucose oxidation because glucose is the most efficient source of ATP production for making ATP per oxygen molecule. So, we're talking about athletics. Um, but even more so than just athletics. So per oxygen molecule,

25:44
glucose is more efficient at making ATP than fat by about 12 or 15%. When people talk about fat efficiency being more efficient, that's based on calories per gram. So, but we don't have a calorie shortage. We everyone's got an abundance of calories and they're and they're walking around with abundance of calories around their waist. Yeah.

26:06
We don't have a calorie shortage. we have our our um true bottleneck at making energy is often oxygen usage or oxygen efficiency. That's the rate limiter for making ATP. And then it gets interfered with with oxidative stress, heavy metals, or those endotoxins we talked about before. And so when we're trying to create more

26:27
energy, glucose is the most efficient and creates the least amount of oxidative stress in the mitochondria compared to fat. Yeah. And so when we're trying to create more, that's where that's where my kind of my eyes start opening up as I was digging into this.

26:48
Mo the most efficient energy source is glucose. Fat is the least efficient. And so if I'm thinking about how do I solve when we look at so so my this led me to see that diabetes fatty liver disease basically metabolic disease is not driven by glucose it's not from sugar it's from an inefficient production of

27:14
ATP in the mitochondria which then triggers a stress response stress hormone response glucagon adrenaline cortisol get elevated because the brain says we need more energy. And so how do we release more energy? We we go into a fight orflight state. We release stress hormone which causes us to release more fat from our fat cells and glucose from the liver

27:37
even to make gluconogenesis. So we release all this energy and in an acute state. So we're stressed out. Maybe we have a a relative in the hospital or we're running from a predator if we want to take it back to to those times. In acute state, it gives us energy for a short period of time, which is great. It's a survival instinct. But when we stay in a survival

28:04
mode for too long, then we start adapting to a survival response, which is this elevated stress hormone to make up for a lack of ATP production. So, we don't have enough energy, whether that's because we're trying to sprint away from something or we're anxious and we don't want to eat. Yeah. Or we're putting inefficient fuel through our or toxins through our mitochondria, which is reducing ATP production below what our body needs.

28:32
And so, this stress response creates this release of stored fuel at a high rate. And if we stay in that state for too long, like I would say keto or carnivore, we stay in that state for too long, now we're adapting. Now, they will say their high blood sugar or their low thyroid is just an adaptation to their diet. I would agree it is adaptation, but it's a negative one.

28:57
It's metabolic adaptation to a survival state, which is not which is meant to be short-term. Yeah. Not long term. And so that's that's where so to to to be to be really um candid. Yeah. This is where a lot of my some of my conflict with people came in last fall because I was recognizing that people were saying, "Hey, I have this I having this high blood sugar. My thyroid's low.

29:23
I don't have a lot of energy. My hair is falling out." And I was saying I started telling people like this is textbook response to a long-term very low carb diet. That's normal. If you eat some carbs, you will be you you'll you'll reverse that. You will have you will see all these symptoms uh come back to basically go away.

29:45
You'll get normal blood sugar. Your thyroid will improve. However, many of the the coaches in the keto carnivore space were telling them it can't be the diet. That's you. You're either cheating on the diet. You're either you're having dairy, artificial sweeteners, alcohol.

30:05
You just need to diet harder, eat more fat, and completely invalidating their experience. But this is not just like isolated. This is hundreds of people. I think it's people having these problems and that's what Lisa Wedderman found you know Dr. Dr. Lisa, of course. You know, so when she said this, she had,00 people interview, uh, email her, message her right after she

30:31
put out her video about this, saying, "I'm experiencing the same thing. I need help." Yeah. And so what happened to Lisa? Someone from the carnivore space made a little video of her zeroing in on her countertop saying, "Oh, look, she's drinking. Oh, look, she's using artificial sweeteners." basically accusing her of lying and saying she's drinking and that's what's causing her problems, not carnivore.

30:55
And so I saw an abundance of this invalidation of people saying, "Hey, this is what I'm experiencing. I'm doing my best here." Yeah. But I'm having these negative symptoms and I'm not sure what to do and they're being told to diet harder, eat more fat. Yeah. I don't agree with that. That's where the conflict happened. Yeah. This was some and and people even taking Lisa and and making videos about her like trying to pick her apart rather than listening.

31:23
Exactly. Invalidator. That's just trolling and it's not nice because as I said there's always two sides of a story and there's few things like why do you think that okay so once again when I speak about low carb diet is a low carb it's not keer it's under 100 g carbohydrates which is very different it's not 20 grams and why do you think that so much

31:48
research that's coming out recently there's studies from 2025 show that a chronic high carb diet in metabolically unhealthy people contributes to multiple pathological issues and that low carb diet is actually very efficient in managing those issues. Okay, managing and solving is not the same thing. So I look at a low carb diet as like you have a clogged sink. Okay,

32:16
we have a kitchen sink is clogged. The water won't get through. So let's let's just reduce the water. Let's turn off the faucet. Just turn the fa. Don't run the water. Don't fix the clock. Just turn off the water and you won't see it anymore. That's a low carb diet. We have a glucose oxidation problem. Let's just not put glucose in there and then we won't have to see it. You're chasing symptoms. You're chasing symptoms. So temporarily blood sugar comes down.

32:42
Eventually blood sugar will go back up again. Okay. My with a high carb, lowfat approach, what we're doing is improving the glucose oxidation. we are getting fat out of the way so that glucose can actually be metabolized. And I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between glycolysis which is the initial meta metabolism of glucose that's outside the mitochondria and glucose oxidation which is when it's

33:10
converted to peruvate and put through the mitochondria glycol and and so that misconception is where people think oh my blood sugar came down this must be good this will solve it and it's not sol it's not addressing the problem because when blood glucose is blocked from glucose oxidation, that's when we see the backup of when we see more glucose converted to

33:34
lactate. We see blood sugar rising because it's not being properly oxidized. And then we have the stress response I mentioned before because glucose isn't being oxidized. We have a lot more oxidative stress in the mitochondria from the high fat being oxidized. and um it leads to that those elevated stress hormones, the lower thyroid. So

33:59
the problem with low carb is you don't get the insulin stimulation. And when you have low insulin stimulation, you also you tend to have low thyroid production, low conversion of T4 to T3. Yeah. In the peripheral tissues. It may not even show up in your blood test, but you'll have the symptoms because the blood test isn't super effective at figuring at at detecting what's

34:21
happening that conversion in the peripheral tissues. It's really just around the in the blood. So, the T4 when you have low T3 conversion or low thyroid function, you're also going to have low sex hormone production. that's going to negatively impact testosterone and the conversion of cholesterol into the other steroid hormones like progesterone and

34:45
estrogen and that can lead to an estrogen dominance long term. These are not short-term like 2 3 4 months necessarily for most people but over 6 months to a year two years then we start seeing these negative this negative impact from the low thyroid low sex hormone production low insulin signaling.

35:06
There was a keto doc who put this video out on YouTube. So, I'm not telling stories that that this keto doctor hasn't put out all over YouTube. Yeah. But she was she's hardcore keto. Mhm. Driving home, stopped with her husband at the grocery store to get some grapes cuz they were going to event. They were hungry and they grabbed some snacks and she ate a handful of grapes. So, we're

35:28
talking about, I don't know, 5 to eight grapes, 10 grapes maybe most. And she said her blood sugar jumped to 200 mg per deciliter from eating the grapes. And her response was grapes are evil. It's the glucose. It's the grapes. This is a this is a medical doctor who is coaching people, writes books, speaks at all these conferences.

35:50
That is ridiculous. Blaming the grapes. Now, yes, she's not low carb. She's keto like you said, but that is that's called gluc that's called glucose intolerance. That is not metabolic flexibility. That is metabolic rigidity. If you cannot So the problem with the low carb diet is what I see is once you're through the low carb diet, can you go back to eating carbohydrates at normal amounts at 40 to 60% of your diet?

36:18
Yeah. If it doesn't get you in a in a state, a metabolic state where you can consume 40 to 60% of your calories from glucose or you can just eat some glucose. Yeah. And your blood and your body responds properly, oxidizes it properly, and it doesn't cause improper glucose or doesn't cause glucose intolerance. It

36:40
doesn't uh keep your blood sugar elevated for two or three hours. Yeah. Then it isn't fixing it. So if it doesn't get get back to where you can eat carbs as a as we mentioned the proper carbs fruit, potatoes, rice, yeah, those kind of things, you know, true carbs, if you can't properly oxidize those without having some sort of negative

37:06
response, then you haven't fixed anything. No, that is correct. So unless the diet gets you to the point that you can you can do that, yeah, you aren't fixed, you're hiding it. Yeah, that is correct. So, if a low carb diet, if you can use a low carb diet to get to the point where you can now consume 40 to 60% of your calories from carbohydrates, great.

37:27
I'm not going to argue with a fixed situation, but that's not what I see happening. What I see happening is people getting stuck on low carb and as soon as they go back to eating carbs, they have all their problems come back. That's not fixing it. But why wouldn't people be low carb diet long term? Like I I I really thrive on a low carb diet and I had really severe issues on diet with carbohydrates.

37:50
You I'm sorry. Say that say that last point. When I'm on low carb diet long term, I feel amazing and it's probably a lot to do with my age as well because I'm 46 you know permenopause and it is very well-known fact that low carb diet is beneficial for people for women in per perry and menopause and postmenopause. I think that's an opinion, but that's I think that's an opinion. I don't think it's an opinion.

38:15
That's an opinion, but it seems to be working for most women. And my problem personally as an athlete as well and as a just a regular person in general, when I start eating lot of carbs, first of all, I get full from the carbs. I don't have enough space to eat protein. I get bloating. I just it doesn't really doesn't suit me. Um, and it gets back to

38:43
my point like at the moment so many people in America and Australia are on GLPS. They don't eat a lot because they don't have like they don't have the appetite. And my argument is if these people start eating too much rice, veggies, and stuff, they're high in fiber. They're not going to have enough space and appetite to eat enough protein. And that it affects their muscle mass which is the most important

39:09
thing we can keep in our life. You need enough muscle mass to thrive to have a good health span to be mobile to be metabolically healthy. So th this is one of the main arguments for me that people in this day and age I'm not saying our parents but in this day and age in this climate with all the problems we have I think that's why I think having lower

39:32
carbs long term is actually better idea than being high carb okay and not for everyone it's also individual also let's let's bring into people's attention that we are not all the same we are different depending depending on our genetics, our lifestyle, our illnesses, like there are lots of variables they come into the picture. So there's not one sizefits

39:56
all. And I think that if someone tells you that everyone has to be on this diet and it works for everyone, I think this is actually wrong and it's misleading. Even though I'm a proponent of low carb diet, I still recommend to power athletes to be on a high carb diet. But they're so much different to me. And I said to you, I even said this at a carnivore conference that I would not

40:21
recommend to power our athlete being on carnivore diet all year round because they will disadvantage themselves in their performance because as you said, glucose is a quicker source of energy and ATP. So if someone is a power athlete, they definitely need high carbs. So it's not same for everyone. But um yeah, so that that that is my point with the the people on GLPS or people like me

40:44
who are slim endurance and then I just couldn't get enough protein and fat in me because I was having too much carby foods that are full of fiber and I just couldn't and my diet was as a result low in calories because I couldn't fit it all in and I ended up having aminora osteopenia and that all resolved when I went back on high high meat low carb

41:08
diet, right? So, so if I would love to address that. Yeah. Okay. For you specifically being you do a lot of endurance races. Yeah. Right. And so a good base of fat, you have a lot of energy coming out for a very small frame. So it is hard for you to to eat a lot of food. And so what I would do as your coach if I were your honored to be your coach, but what I would do is include a lot of carbohydrates that were not high in

41:35
fiber that were very easy to digest like bananas or like juice or things that were liquid and easy to digest proteins that maybe if you tolerate dairy, dairy or um but definitely prioritize the protein although I think there's there's been a lot of overemphasis on protein over the last several years. I think what the numbers are showing is that

42:00
6 to 75 g per pound or like in kilos 1.2 to 1.6 g per kilo is sufficient for athletes, bodybuilders, dieters, that's a sufficient amount of protein for many people. So that is what I would consider ideal. And more than that, you start to oxidize. So someone trying to get one gram of protein per pound of body weight

42:27
or two grams per kilo, you're oxidizing all that protein into glucose. I would rather reduce the protein intake and just take in glucose because it's a lot less stressful and you're getting the glucose directly. So you keep a very light frame as an endurance runner and that is a strategy for endurance runners to stay as light as possible to have a low weight to power ratio. Right. So you want low weight, high output of energy and power.

42:55
So definitely I wouldn't Yeah, I can see where high fiber foods would interfere with your ability to take in enough calories. Yeah. Like I said something like it's really hard for me to put on weight. I'm like 105 lbs. And the only time I put on weight was when I was on carnivore diet, like a strict carnival diet. And that was easy for me to gain weight. But I

43:20
would not want to be on strict carnivore diet for life. I was on the strict carnivore diet for six weeks. Okay. The best diet for me that I feel the best and my hormones are working well, my blood test and everything is when I eat a lot of meat and little amount of plants. And it my diet is low carb, but it's not keto. I do have cuz I eat berries and things like that. So, I have around 100 grams of carbs a day.

43:45
Okay. And with your weight, I mean, your weight and leanness that makes you're threading a needle on like many um physique athletes, like people who are compete bikini competitors versus women or bodybuilding competitors for men. When your weight and you're that lean and you put out that much output, you're threading a line between how much you're eating, where your weight needs to be, and hormone balance.

44:12
They're all right there. I mean, you are right on the edge of performance. And if you go below anywhere, you risk throwing off hormones because of how lean and how light you are and how much energy output you have to put on. So that is that's a unique position for an athlete, a lean athlete like yourself. Um, so I'm not invalidating it. I'm just saying you're in a position that is unlike most

44:40
people because of where you like to perform and where you keep your weight and your and your body fat. Uh, and I'm with you there. I like to stay lean. I I I I do. Um, with regards to GLPS, I've made the argument that low carb is not a good combo for GLPS because GLPS signal one of the benefits of GLPS,

45:02
GLP1s is they signal insulin. They try to raise insulin and in some cases stop glucagon or limit glucagon release. It'll they'll stimulate the sensitivity to the glucagon from the receptors, but they limit the glucagon release. So basically less glucanogenesis.

45:22
The GLPs try to turn off gluc gluconogenesis and increase insulin response on a low carb diet, especially a very low carb diet. I know you're not arguing for keto, but a keto is especially is elevating glucanogenesis and lowering insulin. So now we have a GLP is trying to do the opposite of a keto diet.

45:45
And and depending on how low carb you are, you could be experiencing the similar hormonal response from the diet. I don't think at 100 grams that you're going to have a lot of glucanogenesis. You might have a little bit, but not nothing like a someone who's having 30 grams of carbs or less. Right? So, where I've argued is that a high carb, lowfat would work well with GLP1 because they're both stimulating insulin and

46:10
lowering glucagon. When you eat higher carbs, you automatically turn off or reduce your need for gluconogenesis because you're bringing enough glucose. Your liver doesn't have to make it. What we don't want is our liver working hard to make more glucose. Yeah, that is true. But the problem is that when you're on GLP, you constantly in calorie deficit, right?

46:32
So, you need more protein to preserve your muscle mass because you're in calorie deficit. Not because protein is now like the most important thing and it's a big hype. I agree. But because you are for months and months on end in a severe calorie deficit potentially, you need to have more protein. And if you eat a lot of carbs and you're already not hungry, it's very difficult

46:55
to cover the protein need to not catabolize muscle. Correct. And strength training, I think, is a big part of maintaining that. Not just protein. You can't just eat more protein expect. Yeah. Strength training, that's like a non-negotiable for those people, right? So just because someone is doing their diet wrong because they're on

47:15
GLPs, they're neglecting protein isn't going to change my opinion on how much carbs they should have. If they're neglecting their protein because they can't get around their GLP1. Yeah. Then that's that's a flaw on their side because they can't flaw with my argument. Oh, no. I know it's not a flaw in your argument. I I I agree with a lot of things that you say. I'm just saying that it might might be physically

47:44
impossible for people on GLPS to feed in all the carbs that you recommend plus all the protein that they need for their needs. And also, they probably will not be in calorie deficit if they have all the protein and carbs that you recommend like your diet. And I I'm not a big fan of a calorie deficit either. No, I don't think that's a good idea. So, a GLP1 is going to I'm not a big fan of

48:08
GLP1s the way they're used right now. If you're going to use it, micro dose it 8 weeks, come off of it. 8 weeks, cycle it, micro dose. If you're going to use it, I'm I'm a I like helping people get off of GLP1s. And I if I were to help someone get off of a GLP-1, it would be with a very high carb, very lowfat, moderate protein diet to improve their glucose and bring their thyroid back up.

48:33
because I think the GLP ones killing their appetite is going to do the same thing that a keto diet does. It's going to lower their thyroid. It's going to make them dependent on glucanogenesis for blood sugar. Um or it's going to waste away their bones and their muscles. Not a fan of the impact of GLP1. And my GLP1 offramp program would be very high carb. Uh but with fruit and and nutritious like nutrient-dense carbohydrates obviously. Yeah.

49:04
And and stimulating their appetite, getting them to eat more to bring their metabolism back up because I think they tank people's metabolism, but people are stuck on them and they're being told by their medical uh practitioner, whoever is overseeing it, that you may be on this for the rest of your life. So, I understand the problem you're saying. I agree with you that that is a problem.

49:26
I'm I I would not say the solution is to perpetuate the problem with a low carb diet. I would help them start reducing their need for GLP1s with a high carb diet and addressing the weight loss and glucose tolerance and and insulin uh resistance issues with a high carb, very low-fat diet. Uh some of the arguments I hear

49:51
about lowfat are what about hormone production? What about brain health? I had some kid, he had to be a kid cuz he probably heard it somewhere, read it on the internet that oh no, your brain is like 80% cholesterol and you need high fat to produce cholesterol to produce hormones. It's like none of it was true. None of it was true. So, so dry weight brain take all the water out of it. Maybe it's

50:15
10 to 12% cholesterol. Wet weight with all the water is maybe one or two% cholesterol. The point is our body makes about one gram of cholesterol a day to replace what we lose in our bile bile acids, right? That gets filtered out through our digestive system. If you're on a low cholesterol diet, it might produce 2 g of cholesterol per day. That's all we need

50:38
to make to replace our cholesterol pool for hormones, for brain health, and anything else we might need cholesterol for. One gram. Yeah, you can make 1 g of cholesterol from 1 to 2 g of fat. So, it doesn't take much fat. You can also make your needed cholesterol, 1 g of cholesterol from 4 g of glucose or 2 to 4 g of protein. So, we don't need fat to make cholesterol.

51:03
Fat and cholesterol are not the same thing. And your hormones, your steroid hormones, everyone's worried about, they're made from cholesterol. Testosterone being the biggest one in both men and women. Our biggest need from for steroid hormone is testosterone. So for a man would be the greatest 7 to 10 milligrams of cholesterol for this for our daily testosterone

51:27
which is 7 1 of a gram. And our body makes a gram a day from whatever it wants, sugar, protein, or so a low-fat diet like 30 or 40 grams of fat a day is not going to impair your need your cholesterol.

51:47
30 to 40 grams a day is great. And also one more thing I wanted to point out and I think you will agree. Wait, say that again. Say that again. I want to hear that one more time. 30 to 40 grams a day is how is good. That's great. I think that's enough. I think that's enough for most people. I also still think that it's not one sizefits all, but for most people that's enough. Just and you would probably lose weight if you were overweight. You would lose weight on 30 to 40 grams. 100%.

52:14
Um, one thing I wanted to point out and I hope Yeah, I don't interrupt. I'm sorry. There's an undeniable fact that's proven by a lot of science that fish oils like EPA, DHA are very beneficial for brain health and those are fats. You agree? Okay, let's talk about fish oil. I'd love to talk about fish oil. Okay, let's talk about fish oil.

52:36
I don't think we need to take 10 grams or 20 grams of fish oil on a daily basis. Our need for DHEA is what, one or two, maybe three grams tops a day. Yeah. But I don't even think you need to take fish oil capsules. I'm just saying that some type of freds are beneficial for brain and you can just have a piece of salmon few times a week. Fish. Yeah. Fish in a whole food form.

52:58
Yeah. 100%. I didn't say you need to take supplement. All I No, no, no. I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm so glad you brought it up because I would have forgotten to mention this. So, I do not like seed oils and there's a lot of argument about seed oils. Oh, they lower cholesterol. Oh, they're shown beneficial for heart health. No, they are shown for beneficial for heart health. They're shown to lower cholesterol.

53:20
And the reason they lower cholesterol is because when they get in your liver, they damage the folding of proteins it takes to make the LDL and the other they'll let the the proteins that carry cholesterol, right? The LDLs and the HDLs, they damage the folding so they never leave the liver. You're basically damaging the molecule before it ever

53:43
leaves the liver. So it never leaves the liver and doesn't get in your bloodstream. That's how it lowers it. So it's a damaged particle. Yeah. when we look at oils. So the damage the problem is we can have all those good things that they say about these polyunsaturated fats in your blood at the same time it's causing damage inside your mitochondria to the inner mitochondrial membrane damaging as I said before creating oxidative stress

54:06
and impairing ATP production which I think is the most dangerous part about them and that's how they create the stress response which leads to metabolic disease. So when we look at oils, we have saturated fat, which of course that's what our body turns sugar into. Saturated fat. Saturated fat is not a essential nutrient. No, for those who saying carbs aren't essential, you shouldn't have got saturated fat is not essential. Our bodies make saturated fat. Can make all

54:32
you need from sugar. It's a wonderful thing. It tastes good. Eat your sugar. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, saturated fat super stable. Monounsaturated fat, very stable, creates very little oxidative stress from from it has what? One open double bond. You know what I'm talking about?

54:54
In the chain around the the the fat, right? We have our little our little fence of you know carbons there. and and there's only one opening uh in a monounsatur monounsaturated one place for oxidative stress or oxygen to go in there a free radical to create damage with polyunsaturated fat we have 2 3 4 six openings which create vulnerability

55:18
for oxidation so like olive oil the monounsaturated fat in olive oil is has a what's called a peroxidation index um I would get too deep in the numbers. It starts to get confusing. Basically, people get confused. When we compare monounsaturated fat to let's say the the linoleic acid, which is a common polyunsaturated fat, the

55:42
omega6 that's in our processed food or that's in nuts, whatever. The linoleic acid is 40 times, even though it has only one more double bond, it is 40 times more vulnerable to oxidative stress than the monossaturated fat. Okay?

56:04
Fish oil, which is an omega-3, has six double bonds. It is 320 times more vulnerable to oxidative stress than the monounsaturated fat and the olive oil. Yeah, that's tremendous amount of and oxidative stress is what impairs the mitochondria making energy. This is

56:27
where we have this is where we see aging begin is in the oxidative stress in the mitochondria. And they see this across not just humans, multiple species, reptiles, multiple mammals, birds, they see the same thing. The the the the species with the least amount or was I

56:50
the least amount of polyunsaturated fat in the mitochondria entering their mitochondria have the longest lifespans. And so this is where this fish oil craze, which is selling, as far as I'm concerned, it's selling um snake oil because we can get our two to three grams of the omega-3 we need

57:16
from whether it's fish directly or walnuts or some other form of whole food. And at a minimal amount, the ancestral amount would be a very minimal amount, two or 3%. And whatever omega-6 we need, we're talking about 2 to 3%. These are essential fats. We're talking about six grams a day. Yes. Tops.

57:36
I 100 million% agree with you on this. I think that people are taking lots of unnecessary supplements. And I also am a big proponent of getting most of your nutrients from food and not from synthetic supplements that can be rancid or have like under 10% bioavailability.

57:56
They can be contaminated like it is very difficult to get actually good supplements and lot of the times people are taking supplements they don't need. However, this is the one last point I want to discuss because I mentioned it at the beginning. There there are studies showing that fruits and vegetables these days have much less nutrients than in the past because of soil depletion, transportation, storage

58:22
and then also a lot of plants like um you know crops like wheat whatever rice oat are heavily sprayed with glyphosate which cause health issues. Um lots of obviously all non-organic vegetables are also sprayed with uh herbicide, pesticide, whatever they sprayed with it. Which is also one of the reasons I recommend to people to eat more meat

58:47
because if meat is organic, grass-fed, grass-finished, it doesn't have all these crappy things in it and it's highly nutritious still in this day and age. So I think that it would have been different for our parents. But in this era with all the spraying and the soil depletion, I think that meat would be superior nutritionally to any vegetable and fruit.

59:10
There there are nutrients that meat doesn't have a lot of. Now if you're look eating organs, you're eating liver, you're eating some supplement like things like that. Okay. Also, do you think there's some glyphosate in the water table which is then impacting the grass being eaten by the animals, these grass-fed animals? Yeah, the animal can to extend uh detoxify from the glyphosate via the liver.

59:37
So, we for example test all our products that are meat-based from like a the for example the collagen powder. We test for glyphosate and heavy metals and there's nothing. Um it's it is very different if the grass is directly sprayed with glyphosate and it's different when it's some residual glyphosate from rain because that if it's sprayed with glyphosate then obviously the animal is

01:00:01
might not be able to detoxify from all the glyphosate there is. So that's why the meat needs to be grass-fed grass finished and organic because if it's organic the grass cannot be sprayed and if it's grass-fed grass finished it the animal did not eat the grains that are spread with glyphosate because the animal is same as a human we can detoxify from lots of crap in our body

01:00:24
but it's got limits like if if you know if you as a human if you use chemical skin care hair care you eat ultrarocessed foods with glyphosate you smoke you saying you're not going to be able to detoxify from all of that. But if you do only one thing, your liver can detoxify from it. And it's same with the animal. You know, if they have a little bit of glyphosate, they can detoxify it.

01:00:46
If they eat their whole life grains sprayed with glyphosate, they probably get stuck in their body. And I would agree that glyphosate is a problem. I think we could behave similarly to these grass-fed animals and try to avoid glyphosate in our food as much as

01:01:06
possible with there are oatmeals that are like not sprayed with glyphosate. There are uh organic products that are not sprayed with glyphosate. But if we have we're taking in we're eating a healthy whole food diet and our one and our primary source of glyphosate is these these an these fruits, veggies or whatever that sneak in is glyphosate.

01:01:28
Yes, we have a glyphosate issue. That's not a glucose issue. Which is why a lot of the the arguments it's low. You're switching the argument on low carb here on me a little bit, which I admire, but that's not the problem with the food itself, which is what a lot of people are concerned with. They're concerned about the glucose and the fiber and all

01:01:51
these things. It's that's not the food itself. That is just the chemical being sprayed on the food. And glyphosate is not everywhere. It is just dominant in the US and a few other countries. it and we are politically trying to find our way around this right now. Um, but the problem is not the food itself. So, I'm talking about the food itself. Addressing metabolic disease, glyphosate is a problem.

01:02:15
My big focus is on metabolic disease. And the best way I know to reverse metabolic disease is a very high carb, lowfat, moderate protein diet. So, I know glyphosate is a problem, but I'm not want to throw out there's expression throw the baby out with a bath water. That's I think if we're getting rid of things like fruits and vegetables and certain healthy grains, that's the baby. The bath water is glyphosate.

01:02:39
I want to eliminate or reduce the bath water and reduce the glyphosate as much as possible while still ingesting these foods because I don't think it's just the nutrients. Yes, they're nutrient poor compared to 100 years ago, but it's the fibers and we can get some polyphenols in there that are important for our gut feed those microbes. We have 37 35 40 trillion cells in our body. We have 35 or 40 trillion microbes living in our body. Most of them in our gut.

01:03:05
And those trillions of microbes also have DNA. And so their DNA, they have a hundred times more DNA than we do. And so we're not just dealing with their human body. We have to keep those microbes happy and their DNA happy. And they really like fibers and polyphenols. So we make the right we have the right population there to make butyrate to have a healthy gut lining. So glyphosate hurts our gut lining. Lack of fiber and polyphenols hurts our gut lining.

01:03:35
We got to find a balance. You got to find a balance. And I don't think carnivore is helpful because I've talked to several carnivore people who who come back and they start testing their gut and they have you know micotoxins. They have the MCA is building up. They have, you know, mass cell activation. Um, and they're got some of these are they they only go to the bathroom once every 7 to 10 days and they brag about it on social media

01:04:02
saying, "I don't eat carbs, so I don't have to go to the bathroom as often." That's our primary form of detoxification. Fiber helps detoxify the gut of estrogens of whatever toxins we have that are that build up in our but also that's how we get rid of excess hormones like estrogen and so forth. So I I I see more there's risktobenefit ratio to every decision we make. And

01:04:29
when I look at the long-term problems, hormonal issues, metabolic health, hormonal issues with very low carb with intermittent fasting, um especially keto and carnivore, I don't see predictable for me to help someone lose weight or reverse metabolic disease. To me, it's more predictable to use a high carb, low fat than use low carb and and worry

01:04:52
about those hormonal implications as well as gut health. It's for me seems easier, less of a risk of benefit to use lots of fruit and certain vegetables, not all vegetables, certain vegetables and some healthy grains to improve gut health versus to eliminate them or limit them completely.

01:05:13
It's a ris the risk-to- benefit ratio for me seemed I've I've moved from low carb to high carb and and I respect but I but as I told you initially when we had our first conversation about this you are you're a very healthy fit person. You're sensitive to what your body is telling you.

01:05:33
Unfortunately, there's a lot of people in our space, in our diet space and health space, who do not take care of themselves, who do not who are not as healthy and fit as you and I are. Not saying that to brag, but that's just not a priority. Yeah, of course. And so, you have obviously found something that is working well for you, and I respect that. I respect the fact that you stay fit and healthy and you

01:05:58
have an open mind and you have conversations like you see nuance which is I think where what's been missing what is missing from the entire conversation is nuance and I would agree we need we need to look when we're dealing with people we need to look at them individually and their situation with nuance and we need to look at the big picture with some nuance as well.

01:06:20
Yeah. So I respect I respect your your approach with nuance. Yeah, 100%. Exactly the same and you just nailed it. So you are a lean and fit and athletic. I am lean and fit and athletic but I thrive on low carb diet and you thrive on high carb diet which is what I wanted to point out and I wanted to have this whole conversation.

01:06:41
We are not all the same and we both can agree with even though we disagree on some things but I think after this conversation we both can agree that ultrarocessed foods are the problem not not too much broccoli and fruits and veggies% ultrarocessed foods are the problem we are all different different causes for

01:07:03
different horses depending on many different variables and that perhaps and I'm going to be hated for this But perhaps ketogenic and pure carnivore diet is not a great solution for lifetime. It's not it's not I would I would say and I agree with you 100% when I do extreme when I do shift changes or

01:07:27
cycles like sometimes I cycle very low protein. Yeah. But I don't do it for more than four or five days. So when I do a shift of something that is like I would never do long term, but more than four or five days is where we start seeing metabolic adaptations start happening that I that I think are bad. They're gone. You have a stress response. Anything you do

01:07:48
stressful 2 days, 3 days, 4 days, 5 days. Fasting the same thing. That's about it. And then you want to reshift back into a refeed or re, you know, bring energy back in and restore some homeostasis. a three to five day window of some sort of metabolic stress can be useful tool. Amazing.

01:08:09
On that I start seeing issues and it doesn't matter whether it's vegan or carnivore I wouldn't do it more than three to five days at a time for a long term for a normal healthy person doing it weeks on end. Yeah. And it they can be used as a specific intervention very short term. Yeah.

01:08:30
Without longterm problems. for to me I was on the carnivore diet for a little bit longer and it did help me to resolve all my issues but yeah in the end of the day it still wasn't diet for lifetime but one last thing so we talk about I'm low carb you're high carb but we both talk about the importance of protein and then you could talk to someone like Dave Sinclair or Dr. Walter Lungo who would

01:08:55
tell you that low protein diet is the best for longevity and anti-aging. So that's another thing I just think that there is today there is a science for everything because it depends what angle you take, who are your subjects and what are you trying to fix, how old are the subjects and this is why I wanted to have the whole conversation for people to see the different perspective and the

01:09:19
fact that there is not one diet that's perfect for everyone at every age and every life stage. Yeah. No, I I try to learn from those people I disagree with and I learned from Walter Longo in that I would not agree with him for a long term, but he does he is right on mTor being a driver of disease and cancer and what drives mTor more than

01:09:41
anything else branch chain amino acids coming from that would come from me the leucine isolucine b and that's why I would sometimes toggle like I will reduce those protein inputs but I do it for three to five days. Yeah, to turn off mTor, allow to come up, have some cellular clean up happen, and then I come back to eating and then I ramp up

01:10:03
my protein even cuz I have a more anabolic response. I'm like, okay, I'm replenishing the protein that I did without. But to turn off mTor, let's let's not I say that to say let's not discount when I came through my struggle, my issues with low carb and I I'm coming to this space of I'm I'm trying to eliminate all of my preconceived

01:10:27
ideas about this after being in professionally in the health space for 28 years experimenting with the diet. I was a vegan vegetarian back in the 90s, 30 years ago, for about three and a half years. And it did not work well for me. But I try to come into it and say, "Okay, I'm going to try to eliminate as many of my preconceived concepts as I can and learn from what they're saying." Yeah.

01:10:51
And where are the benefits to their say and where are the risks? another risk of and how do I take the nuggets of gold and leave behind the rocks and say how can I learn from what they're saying and incorporate that into my approach where maybe I do six weeks of cycling low protein high protein you know throughout a week

01:11:15
to reduce mtor for that period of time maybe improve some cellular cleanup and then go back to my normal protein you know diet for for a longer period of time, but try basically to say not say you need to do what I'm doing, but let's remove some of our as much of our dogma as possible and listen to people we disagree with and see if there's a

01:11:41
wisdom there and that maybe they're taking too far. Maybe they are incurring risk from from from their own level of dogma. But where is the where's the truth that is that resides within it? and how do we use that and implement that into our own routine or understanding as we continue to figure this out because we're all looking at

01:12:02
this from different viewpoints at a puzzle. we're all trying to solve, but we have our limited view. And I think it works better if we have if we if we listen to the people who are looking at this puzzle from other points of view and kind, oh, okay, I I I I see what you're saying. Maybe that fits here and maybe this fits here in this space.

01:12:28
And so, like what you and I are doing right now. Yeah. 100%. I love this conversation. I'm so glad we did. It's great to see for everyone to see there is, you know, different side to each story and we can learn from each other and agree and disagree on things. One last question that I ask every single of my guests. Um, okay. What is your favorite book? Favorite book.

01:12:51
Yeah. Or a good book that you've read recently. If you read If you don't read, you're excused. Oh, I I read I listen mostly. I listen to books. Every book that you listen to, you know, it's funny. It's gonna sound It's gonna sound funny to a lot of people. I I there's a lot of them. I love I have a list I could rattle off. I love Kate Shanahan's most recent book called Dark Calories about about seed

01:13:16
oils. And I think that was I think was amazing. But one for my life right now that's impacting my life is a very old book. It's from 1910 1910 1920. My friend Ben Aotti, I think you know Ben. Yeah. recommended it to me and it's called the science of getting rich. And it's not just about money,

01:13:38
it's about manifesting your life forward in success. And it's so it sounds like it's about money. It's not just about money. It's about we are creative beings. What we say and what we think helps form what we create.

01:14:05
And so when we we the whole universe in this from its p from this perspective comes from a a created universe from God's perspective created God created through thought and then he created us through thought and so he made us also to be creative and so we think what we think

01:14:29
ends up being what we create or what we believe we think and what we speak helps create our future because our life is created through intention and so and it's been as I've as I've implemented this and I've started thinking okay I want to meet someone who can help me with this or this is what I want to create for my business how does

01:14:56
this happen and as I start thinking people are coming into my life just in the last six months months. Wow. I've seen this. People are coming into my life that help me solve this problem or I'm meeting people and like a door is opening or I'm like, "Oh, I get that. Oh, I understand this now." And opportunities are coming to me. But I think the biggest there's one chapter in there that that Ben talks about a lot.

01:15:18
He mentioned he talks about vitamin G in every single one of his talks. I know this whole the whole chapter is about gratitude. Yes. It's about being thankful. Yeah. and and appreciative of of what you have of the people that are in your life and of of the and and what you can create. I mean just it's it's it starts

01:15:43
with gratitude by being thankful and that's what brings you closer to the creator and then puts you in alignment with uh creating what you need to do for for your life because it does come down to our choice. But we we have it starts here. Yeah. And it starts here with with gratitude and then with intention and then speaking and thinking it into place.

01:16:10
That is essentially man manifesting with with integrity and with um with good intentions. Yeah, I love that. I'll definitely look up this book. Thank you so much for today. That was great. And I hope I see you soon in Miami. Yes, I look forward to it. Thank you, Veronica.

01:16:30
Yeah. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Chief Life podcast for more conversations on performance, nutrition, and mindset. And we'll see you in the next episode.