Why Your Body Isn’t Detoxing Properly with David Delgado

Transcript

00:00
What is metilation and why should we care about it?

00:02
It is involved in all sorts of processes such as having energy, having ample neurotransmitters, detoxification,

00:10
cardiovascular health and you know all the things that you care about if you are concerned with longevity have to do with methylation.

00:17
What does it mean when you overmethylate and what does it look like when you under methylate?

00:21
For undermethylation, you're looking at chronic fatigue and brain fog. The second one and the most common way people find out about MTHFR is fertility

00:30
[music] based issues. Most people that are overmethylating, it's because of supplements.

00:36
I'm Veronica Laris Sova and today I'm joined by David Delgado. In this episode, we talk in detail about

00:44
methylation, detoxification, and longevity. And how our genes, environment, and supplements like B

00:51
vitamins, [music] creatine, collagen, and organ supplements may shape the way we age, detoxify, and perform.

01:00
You are listening to the Chief Life podcast.

01:05
David Delgider, welcome to the Chief Life podcast.

01:09
Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to finally be interviewed and I can't wait to share a bit about Otherway and methylation today.

01:15
I'm so excited. First of all, you're not from Miami, so I'm very honoured that you actually made it here cuz it's not really close to where you're staying.

01:24
So, thank you for coming. And secondly, when I first saw you at Wellis and I heard you speak, I'm like, I need to speak to this guy because he talks about

01:32
metilation and that's a very trending topic. Everyone talks about it, but lots of people don't actually know what it

01:39
is. So, what is metilation and why should we care about it?

01:43
Sure. Um, so just as a caveat, I'm originally from Miami, so so there's that. Um, but yeah, I'm based in New

01:50
York, so I definitely did fly down. Um, yeah, as far as like what is methylation, you know, I think that

01:56
methylation is talked about in a lot of misconceived ways, but, you know, really it's a it's a pathway or a network. Uh,

02:05
and it's all about um, I guess the simplest way I could put it is it's it's really about adding a meth. It's a

02:13
process, a biochemical process where you're adding a methyl group to molecules and the process of adding that methyl group can change it. It can, you

02:20
know, morph it into something else. It is involved in all sorts of processes that people care about such as having energy, having ample neurotransmitters,

02:29
detoxification, um involved in cardiovascular health and really, you know, all the things that you care about if you are concerned with longevity have to do with methylation.

02:40
Um I think that where people get tripped up is that they associate methylation only with MTHFR and only with methyl B

02:48
vitamins, specifically with folate. And I think the mistake there is that they're mistaking um the role that MTHFR

02:56
the gene has with folate metabolism um which is very important by the way um with methylation as a pathway. And I

03:05
think that when we when we move the methylation conversation away from just genetics and specifically MTHFR which

03:12
many people have popularized and you know I think the probably the most notable is Gary Brea. um we start to look at methylation more as something to

03:21
be balanced the same way that we talk about nervous system balance or like um yeah I think nervous system balance is

03:28
probably the best metaphor um rather than some really tiny molecule to be optimised in your genetics and I

03:36
think that's kind of the the key difference um methylation plays a role in a you like I said a lot of different systems in the body um one of them is

03:44
going to be in the production of energy which does have to do with MTHFR because it in it's involving the the conversion

03:51
of you know folate into usable folate and then the same goes for methyl B12 as well. Um it's also involved in

03:58
cardiovascular health and the recycling of homoyine which is an amino acid and then because of that it also um is

04:05
involved in the production of Sam which is basically the precursors to dopamine and we all want healthy levels of dopamine. We don't want too much or too

04:13
little. Um and then there's other implications as well in you know fertility in uh choline metabolism which

04:22
then is related to cellular health which we all care about. We all know about NAD but most people are not um as educated

04:30
on the health of the cell membrane not only the mitochondria of the cell but also the wiring or what's surrounding the cell. So that's a you know kind of a

04:39
longer answer but those are all the reasons you should care about it. Yeah.

04:42
So just to simplify it, methylation is a process in a body that's involved or regulates lots of different other different processes in a body, right?

04:51
Yeah. It's really the um when you add a carbon and three hydrogen atoms to you know to a molecule um some molecules are

04:59
going to be more consequential than others. But it's just that process that's happening in every single person multiple times a day. And

05:07
it's a process that has many steps depending on what it's related to. So if it's related to folate, it has a specific sequence. If it's related to

05:15
neurotransmitters, it has another sequence. And really, when we talk about, you know, methylation health or optimising methylation, what we're

05:23
really saying is we want to have a balanced process. We don't want to have too much methylation. You don't want to overmethylate, but you also don't want to undermethylate. So it's about having

05:32
the appropriate amount of methylation and not just, you know, taking high doses of B vitamins and, you know, calling that methylation.

05:39
So, okay. So what does it mean when you overthilate? What does it look like? And what does it look like when you undermethylate? What are the symptoms?

05:47
Yeah, it's a good question. So I would say that um for undermethylation, which is the more

05:54
common use case you're looking at, you know, the symptoms that I had, you know, which is why I got into this whole space about 12, 14 years ago.

06:01
Um it's going to be chronic fatigue and brain fog, which overlap with a lot of things. That could be, you know, low feritin, it could be thyroid, but

06:09
chronic fatigue and brain fog are the most consistent.

06:13
The second um one and the most common way people find out specifically about MTHFR is multiple miscarriages. So, it's

06:21
fertility based issues and that's um due to the role that folate has in the um basically formation of you know in the

06:30
role that it has in terms of preventing neural tube defects. So, that's another one. Um, and then the last one is

06:37
probably going to be a predisposition to elevated toxins. So that could be glyphosate, microplastics, heavy metals,

06:45
etc. So that could be once again, I'm going to use my own personal experience.

06:49
Um, I had elevated mercury and arsenic, but I wasn't eating much fish at all.

06:54
Like it just didn't make any sense. And the reason was because of the diet that I was on the time. I was actually a vegan and I had basically the worst combination of methylationbased genes.

07:06
So like MTHFR, homozygous, all that kind of stuff. And I wasn't supplementing properly. And so I personally had the

07:13
brain fault, the chronic fatigue. And I had elevated heavy metals despite not consuming ostensibly like, you know,

07:21
heavy like high mercury fish. Now, of course, we know that heavy metals are pervasive. there in so many things but 15 years ago that education was less commonplace.

07:30
Um to answer your question about the overmethylation this is where it gets kind of interesting is that most people real most people that are overmethylating it's because of

07:38
supplements for the most part and usually it's because the front line for methylation or MTHFR for many people is

07:48
taking a high dose B complex. So that could be you know taking folate in the number of like five milligrams 10

07:55
milligrams etc which is absolutely appropriate in some cases specifically for treatment resistant depression and there's even a pharmaceutical called

08:03
deplin you know the pharmaceutical industry is well aware of this so they literally have depplin is 15 milligrams of methylolate so you know when people

08:12
say this science is fringe the pharmaceutical companies obviously don't think so and so they're already doing it and that looks like over stimulation

08:20
um caffeine sensitivity, anxiety. Um I think the most common, it's not really clinical use case, but or it's not

08:28
really well studied, but what many people describe is the tired and wired phenomena. And basically having some

08:35
sort of in between state between exhaustion and anxiety that continues throughout the day. And it's often

08:41
marked by getting a second wind after 10 pm. So you might be, you know, a little bit tired throughout the day and then

08:49
sometime around 9 9:30 you somehow have a lot of energy and then you can't go to sleep. Yeah. And that's a pretty common common uh description of overmethylation.

08:58
Okay. So overthulation is from too much supplementing. What about the undermetilation? Like what is the main cause of it?

09:06
Yeah. So let's see.

09:09
I mean, I think it's the the best metaphor here is to look at, you know, your rainarrel. And so, what is your rainarrel? It could be, and I I like to

09:16
use the the d-stress metaphor, which is, you know, diet, exercise, stress, toxins, rest, emotional balance, success, mindset, you know, and supplements.

09:25
I love that. Never heard it before.

09:27
And so, Oh, yeah. It was one of my mentors taught me that. And so, so that's how I look at like our our barrel, right, of you know, how how, you

09:34
know, how full or empty is it? So yes, genetics are important and we'll probably talk about that at some point.

09:42
Um, but you have to look at, you know, the full picture in the sense of like your cells and your membranes are taking

09:49
in information and your emotional states, your nutrition, um, the toxins that you're ingesting on a regular

09:56
basis, intentionally or unintentionally, are all signals. And you know, I would say that um what ends up happening is

10:05
that gets usually a couple different factors. So one might be you have a predisposition. So you may have certain genetics that predispose you to having

10:14
what I would describe as inefficient methylation. I don't really like to use the term mutation. It implies a disease

10:20
and I think a lot of people online use that to to sell products and to just make you feel defected and it's not true. So the genetics are one component.

10:30
The other is your nutrient status. Are you supporting yourself with the right nutrients? Because you know you may have the terrain that needs specific support

10:39
the same way that with a physical body you may you know for example benefit from more aerobic training or from different types of strength training. So

10:47
are you kind of nourishing your body in the right way? Are you using evidence-based supplements appropriately? um what does your stress

10:55
kind of in, you know, day-to-day kind of emotional life look like and all that.

10:59
So, usually it's kind of a confluence of these things. Um what I found in working with people one-on-one is that usually

11:07
they're on the wrong type of diet for their body. So, like in my case, I was a vegan. For other people, it might be something else. Um they're usually not,

11:16
you know, taking basically supplements for, you know, the right B vitamins or they're taking the wrong forms. They may be taking folic acid. They may be

11:24
drinking energy drinks like Celsius that have cyanocobalamin in them. And all of these things compound over time. The reason that matters is because you know

11:32
when you take in these forms of nutrients, specifically supplements that your body can't absorb or convert properly. They accumulate and it's kind

11:39
of a just a almost like a toxic debt that's sort of in your body and over time that starts to weaken your cells,

11:47
your neurotransmitter production. it it impacts your circadian rhythm, um your nutrient status. So, you think you're taking in B vitamins, but you can't

11:55
absorb them. So, you're actually depleted. So, it's usually kind of a a confluence of factors. Um mainly because

12:03
of the the world we live in, you know, and which is I would say increasingly more toxic. You know, we have xenoestrogens and al we're kind of

12:12
attacked on many fronts with all this stuff. So, um I I used to have a more simplistic view of it of it just simply

12:19
being like nutrients, supplements, kind of genetics, um based on working with, you know, over a hundred people. I I've

12:27
kind of seen a more nuanced view. And what I mean by that is, you know, you may have for one person a very physiological root cause, like, okay, um

12:36
you had mold exposure, but then you also have the genetics that kind of lowered your your ability to detox. So you were just much more susceptible to mold.

12:46
Um in other people they could be doing everything right and suddenly they go through a really nasty divorce and all these physiological symptoms happen like

12:55
they can you know suddenly um you know they're get Lyme disease and they have like other stuff going on then

13:02
their methylation is bad and then they have um histamine reactions to food which they never had. Um so I've really seen a wide gamut of entry points.

13:11
Yeah. Um, but I think it comes down to that rain barrel of like, you know, what are the levers on each of those?

13:16
Yeah, that's interesting. And so, how can I find out if I'm over or undermethylating or if I'm just fine?

13:24
Yeah. So, I would say that um the absolute best way to find out would be pro to do a true methylation panel um

13:32
which would be GOVA diagnostics. And what it does is it actually measures um at each part of the process how well the

13:41
conversion is happening. So you might have enough you might be taking the right folate, the right supplements etc.

13:47
Um but then there might be a breakdown in let's say um you know the recycling of

13:54
homocyine back into methionine as an example. So that would be like the really technical biohacky way to do it.

14:00
um because of the cost of the test and how you know just involved it is I don't recommend that for most people. So I

14:08
would say that you know the best proxies are going to be your homoyine levels. So having functionally healthy homoyine

14:15
levels you know between six and eight um I think it's like micro moles per liter something like that if I got the measurement correct but between six and

14:24
eight there's only one unit of measurement for homoyine. So that's generally a proxy for your folate as well as your B12 status.

14:32
So I think that's kind of be a big one.

14:34
Um your methylonic acid which is you know B12 basically uh your RBC folate.

14:40
Um those would be kind of the the big ones I would say. And then in addition to that I would look at um there's tests

14:48
for glutathione. I would also do a hair tissue mineral analysis test to look at heavy metals. Um, which also tell you a lot about your nervous system as well as

14:57
your mineral status, which is also important.

14:59
And then the last one on the organic acid test specifically would be there's a panel around your neurotransmitters.

15:06
And then they will tell you how much dopamine, serotonin, etc. that your your gut is producing. Um, the reason that that matters is because, you know,

15:15
methylation is heavily involved in the production of Sami. So Sammy is an important method donor and you know you

15:21
will get that if your dopamine is low or you're having symptoms of low dopamine then that'll kind of be a proxy for that as well.

15:29
Um and there's also a relationship between serotonin and your B6 levels. So if you're seeing okay my gut is seems to

15:37
be like able to produce serotonin but then my B6 levels are are low like that might be an indication as well. Yeah, I think a lot of people these days have

15:45
problem with too high B6 because they in those energy drinks and a lot of supplements and it can cause neural damage. Is that right?

15:54
You know, I haven't read the studies on the, you know, on the neural damage specifically, so I can't speak to that.

15:59
Um, I don't consume energy drinks personally, so I kind of forget about that um or or pre-workouts really. So, but you're right. I mean, you know,

16:07
energy drinks are just, you know, when you look at the ratios on them, they're just pretty abysmal.

16:13
toxic. I don't understand. It's like it's like a death in a can to me. Like just the smell of it makes me ill. Like it's Yeah. I mean, the closest I've gone

16:20
lately is the the indogenous ketone drinks cuz I know a few people in that space. And how's that?

16:26
Um they're okay. Yeah. I I kind of they're not bad. I don't you know I feel my concentration was pretty good to begin with, but

16:34
um yeah, I don't know. I I think my body's just not used to such high caffeine though, honestly. Like 150 milligrams in a shot. I just don't don't do that well with it anymore.

16:43
Yeah, that's a lot. Let's stay let's stay natural and not overcaffeinated.

16:48
But um okay, so the the two things that are closely closely related and spoken about in relation to metilation is homoyine which you mentioned and that's

16:56
just a simple blood test and the second thing is the MTHFR gene.

17:01
Yes. Can you explain to us what is what does this gene do and what does it mean when you have mutation in this gene because I do have that. So I want to

17:10
know yeah definitely. Um so I want to just um elaborate on the testing a little bit.

17:14
So I forgot about the genetic component which may be interesting to some people.

17:18
So um for those of you who actually want to test for the MTHFR and find out your methylation status which is more than MTHFR but it's an important one. If

17:27
you've done Ancestry or 23 andMe, there's many free tools. Um my favourite would be genetic Genie. There's also um

17:36
BioPrecision, which is just a onetime fee.

17:40
And then you can also um use a code like uh selfdecode um which is a you know DNA testing company, but they have a tool

17:47
where you can upload it as well. um to answer your question around I believe it was just like what is MTHFR and kind of and also [snorts] a good test in

17:55
Australia for the Australian listeners is fit genes. Oh yeah, fit jeans. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

18:00
So um can you repeat the the last question just so I make sure I'm answering what is uh [laughter] I can never pronounce it. What is the MTHFR gene and

18:10
what does it do and what happens when we have mutation in this gene? Okay, so the MTHFR gene stands for methyl

18:17
tetrahydroofolate reductase and it also sounds like a word which we're not going to say here. Um, in short, it's um it's

18:27
pretty much communicating. It's a it's a gene that encodes for an enzyme that is involved in folate metabolism.

18:35
And folate metabolism doesn't get a lot of airtime. it's very like niche and whatever, but you know, it's involved in a lot of things that all of us care

18:43
about. Um and so you know specifically the process that is interrupted is um the MTHFR gene allows you to convert

18:52
folate from food um and even like synthetic folate which is in a lot of processed foods like folic acid into L5

19:00
MTHF which is the form of bioavailable folate that your body uses for you know

19:07
dozens of processes and that includes you know the production of energy, the recycling of homocyine, the creation of methyl donors. Um the creation of

19:15
creatine in your body which is also kind of you know not spoken about enough in terms of the methylation creatine connection. Um you know there's an

19:24
involvement in um the health of the cell membrane. So if if anyone takes phosphatylcholine as an example or any of these lipid based products it's

19:33
involved in that as well. Um so it's a gene that encodes for the conversion of folate.

19:39
So if I have mutation in this gene, I'm pretty much screwed because of all these rules. [laughter] No, no, no, not at all. Not at all on

19:46
the contrary. So it depends. So I would about 50% of the population has you know one hetererozygous. So one MTHFR gene.

19:55
You know what this having this gene doesn't mean you cannot convert folate.

20:00
What it really means is that there is an inefficiency. And so how inefficient are you? If you have one of these genes,

20:07
you're about 40% less efficient than people who do have it. All right? Um or don't have it rather. And then if you

20:15
have both like I do, you know, you're significantly so you're basically, you know, 80 somewhere between 70 to 85%

20:22
less efficient. So in that case, all that means is like for your body's terrain, this is an area where you need to support it. So like when we think

20:30
about longevity or with functional health protocols or health optimisation protocols rather there's just too many things to worry about in the health world which and I think you would agree

20:39
like you can do so much right yes and so methylation MTHFR could be something that you need to incorporate

20:46
into your routine based off your genetics based off your nutrient status based off of um how maybe stressful your life is in that moment because of the

20:55
expression of those genes. So, um, it's really just it doesn't mean that you're broken. It's just just really something that you need to account for and

21:03
include. So, if you're someone with, you know, a homozygous or MTHFR from both of your parents, what that means is that

21:10
you need to be you mean you need to be balancing the methylation pathway. You need to care about detoxification. You need to get serious about cellular

21:18
health. Um, you need to look at your homoyine levels on a regular basis. And all that's very manageable. Of course, if your methylation has been out of

21:26
balance, like it was for me for a long period of time, there's probably going to be a, you know, it's hard to tell with healing, but could be 6 months, 12

21:35
month period where you're probably doing a more involved protocol. Like I had to do heavy metalulation twice. It was like at the time it was really involved. Now

21:42
there's much better stuff, but that was my reality. Afterwards, this is just, you know, another aspect of your health and wellness protocol and it doesn't have to be such a big deal.

21:53
Yeah, it makes sense. It's like, you know, common sense is when you look around in the real world, some people can get away with lot with eating toxic

22:02
foods, drinking alcohol, and they're healthy, and some people can't get away with anything. And I'm one of them.

22:07
People always say, "Oh, like I'm 46 and they're like, you're so fit and healthy at this age." I'm like, "Yes, but I have to be so strict." And as older I get,

22:15
the stricter I have to be with reducing my toxic load, watching what I'm eating, watching my sleep, I have to be much

22:23
more strict than some of my friends of the same age. And I guess that's because of the gene, right?

22:28
Yeah. I mean, the genes definitely play a role. Um, you know, now now I actually look at um getting sick young as like a

22:36
blessing because it forced me to course correct so many areas of my life. Um, so at the age of 24, I started getting into this. So now this is normal to me. I

22:45
wasn't, you know, living an out of, you know, an imbalanced lifestyle until I was 40 and then, you know, having to course correct. So, um, yeah, you're

22:53
absolutely right, though. I mean, there is a lot of variance. Some people can, you know, for lack of better terms, get away with doing all sorts of things that

23:00
are harmful to them. Um, and and then others have to be really dialed in. You know, any little thing could throw them off. You know, you can have a histamine reaction from just eating one bad meal.

23:11
So it really varies a lot.

23:13
Yeah. And so you have a company called Otherway Health and you have supplements they support healthy metilation. Yeah.

23:20
But before we talk about the supplements, if you didn't take any supplements, what are the natural ways to improve or boost your methylation?

23:29
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So let's see. So when we talk about methylation, I also want to frame it in terms of things that a lot of your listeners maybe already do

23:38
and understand. So I would say that um for one is eating um folate containing

23:45
foods. So that would be you know leafy greens, things like spinach, just many other examples. I know some people have are sensitive to oxalates which is a

23:53
real thing for many people. So just increase your consumption of folate, natural food based folate.

23:59
What are the other best foods? They don't have oxalates and they have a lot of folate. Yeah.

24:03
Would it be organ meats like liver? Um, organ meats are great and I would say even organ supplements um are fantastic, you know, for many people. I mean, if

24:10
you I know I personally like organ meats, but I know others don't can't source it or don't like to cook it.

24:17
Um, outside of the US, organ meats are very common place. Yes.

24:21
Um, and you know, they also happen to have, you know, a lot of other nutrients and glycine and all sorts of stuff. So, um, so organ meats and dark leafy greens

24:30
are probably going to be the best sources. Um, so that's one. The other is supporting your detoxification pathways.

24:38
So, you know, for that for some people that would mean infrared sauna. Some people that could be like doing a heavy metal detox. I personally do a heavy

24:46
metal detox twice a year. Not a very invasive one, but you know, it's just a simple protocol with, you know, cilantro and a few herbs. And I do it for six

24:54
weeks. So, that's just something that I personally practice. But supporting your detox pathways on a regular basis. That could be with herbs, with infrared

25:02
sauna, whatever that happens to be is something you definitely want to do.

25:06
Um the other is you know um consumption of amino acids. So one thing that's really underrated in the methylation

25:14
space is the consumption of glycine. And glycine is also a precursor to glutathione and I'm sure you know many

25:21
of your listeners know glutathione which is our master antioxidant. Um so really consuming precursors of you know of

25:30
glutathione. You could also you know consume glutathione itself but glycine actually has a lot of other benefits and a and glycine containing foods would be

25:38
things like bone broth. So having like a very ancestral um grounding diet. So in the aruvedic tradition they would call this a vata pacifying diet. And this

25:47
happens to have a lot of rootbased foods. So like you know bone broth, organ meats, stews, like amino acidrich

25:55
um you know foods. Um or you can have collagen powder.

25:58
Yeah. Or you can have collagen powder which is great if it's clean if it's clean which is great. You know collagen powder is great but you we're talking about foods and non supplements. So so I kept it in that and um you know I

26:06
personally love you know bone broths and and cooking in that way too.

26:09
I I cook my bone broth every week at home always.

26:12
Yeah. And I live in a cold climate so bone broth is is my friend. So, so I would do that and then let's see what

26:19
else. Um, yeah, sweating, the bone broth, folate,

26:27
um, you know, optimising your sleep, which is kind of an obvious one, but you know, and then really like your stress and you know, we haven't touched on it yet, but

26:36
you know, the other aspect of methylation is that it's heavily affected by epigenetics and specifically the role that you know, lifestyle. So

26:44
that could be light, nutrition, movement, etc. plays in the expression of your genes. And so what that amounts to is what can you do to send signals of

26:52
safety to your cells. And so obviously getting a good good night's rest um limiting you know coffee on an empty

27:00
stomach spiking your cortisol unnecessarily um and yeah and obviously like working on any sort of inner wounding or

27:08
challenges that are disregulating you on an energetic level is going to be like absolutely paramount and I think that many people um usually heal in the

27:18
opposite direction. They start with the physiological. Usually they get sick. So they end up going deep into like you know biohacking, functional medicine

27:25
just like kind of I did. And then eventually that leads them to you know understanding the root causes of what was disregulated or co causing the

27:33
disease in their body to begin with. And um pretty much everyone that I've worked with, yes, they've had, you know,

27:40
whether it be um uh you know, having metal toxicity or Lyme disease or exposure to mold, but they also

27:48
inevitably went on this psychosspiritual journey. Um and they were usually carrying limiting beliefs. They were carrying um you know, toxic shame or

27:57
trauma that they didn't realise was contributing to these physiological things. And of course, you need to work at the physiological level and there's

28:03
so much to do there. Um but in almost without fail there's usually a psychosspiritual component that when

28:11
addressed actually makes the physiological healing so much easier. So I would say like that's like a a really overlooked one too.

28:18
Yeah. Of course, every time I say to people that they can make themselves sick or cure themselves just with their thoughts, people think I'm talking about

28:25
some magic, but the basis of it is that if you always have negative thoughts, you're always stressed and the stress creates a lot of cortisol and that

28:33
changes your gene expression. Is that correct?

28:35
Yeah, absolutely. I mean cortisol and cortisol stress, negativity, um you know, shame, feeling like you're

28:43
unworthy, uh creates a biochemical environment that is hostile. And you know, you're when you're hostile towards yourself, your body feels it. You know,

28:51
your your your your cells are listening to every single thought you have in every moment, conscious and subconscious. And so, yeah, that's

28:58
absolutely true. Yeah, I have a friend actually that was telling me her mom is very sick, which is sad, but she was saying, you know, I was thinking recently my whole childhood, my mom kept saying all the time, I'm sick of this.

29:09
I'm sick of that. I'm sick of this. I'm sick of that. And then, you know, I think those thoughts and even voicing it creates so much stress that can actually make you sick in the end.

29:19
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure the great book about is the biology of belief.

29:22
Oh, yeah. Dr. Bruce Litson. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

29:25
Yeah, that's a great book. I recommend it to every big fan of his.

29:28
Yeah. I mean I think that yeah it's it's kind of like the I think what kicked off the epigenetic movement really you know so

29:36
it's great one thing you mentioned before and I want to elaborate on it if you can what is the connection between methylation and creatine

29:44
oh yeah yeah so okay um the connection is that about 40% of your methodoners so

29:52
basically the byproducts of the methylation process so you could think of the methylation as this ongoing biochemical process that's happening, you know, in many places throughout your

30:01
body. About 40% of it is used to create creatine in your body. So, what that means is that when you take creatine,

30:09
you know, endogenously, you take it as a supplement, um, you're basically offloading that process from your cells, which is great because basically that

30:18
means that you free up all that methylation capacity to create neurotransmitters, to support your mitochondria, to create more B vitamins, to do all sorts of stuff. So you don't

30:27
have to take a large amount of creatine um for methylation purposes. Somewhere between 3 to 5 grams is adequate. So you don't need to do a mega dose, you know,

30:34
for specifically for methylation. I know that there's other use cases for um higher doses of creatine,

30:41
but um many people with MTHFR and specifically the double MTHFR benefit a lot from creatine. So they may do

30:50
nothing else. So they may they're take the same amount of B vitamins, maybe they only rely on food, but they add in 3 to five grams of creatine. Suddenly

30:57
they have way more energy, they're sleeping better, and they're not having like those crashes in the afternoon. So it's a it's a it's a true, you know, bio

31:06
hack for people that have this genetic makeup.

31:09
I love that. So, I should start taking creatine every day because I've been taking mega doses of creatine when I'm flying around and I'm jetlagged and I

31:17
have poor sleep because it's been proven in high at high doses to improve you know your mental function if you haven't slept properly but I never thought about

31:26
taking it every day. Yeah, I mean there's so many obviously a lot of studies behind it now, but um and as an athlete, you know, definitely

31:34
there's use cases, but when it comes to definitely for sports, you know, you know, when it comes simply to um you know, for me, this is like a

31:42
real longevity use case of how do we support, you know, cellular health, detoxification capacity, neurotransmitter balance, you know, I'm like, wow, like what else do you want?

31:50
you know, growing into old age, like a sound mind, you know, healthy cells that, you know, and then the ability to detox in a very toxic world and creatine

31:58
actually relatively inexpensively helps you do a lot of these things.

32:02
So, it actually helps you to detox as well from the environmental toxins indirectly indirectly by improving the methylation.

32:08
It supports your body's natural detoxification capacity. Of course, it's not like taking, you know, an acetylcysteine or, you know, glycine,

32:16
which is a lot more direct because it's involved in the production of glutathione, but you are freeing up your body's innate ability to detox, both

32:23
phase one and phase two liver detoxification. All right. I get on creatine every day.

32:27
We actually have that achieved just not in the US. Okay.

32:30
It's coming soon. We have it in Australia. So, I start taking it every day as soon as I get back home. What about um methylation and longevity?

32:39
because I've noticed recently that a lot of the biological age tests are methylation based.

32:45
Yeah, it's interesting. Um, so so in terms of what's the relationship between longevity and life relationship like why because I I

32:52
just received recently a biological age test but it's a methylation test.

32:58
Interesting. So I don't I mean personally I haven't seen that. Um but I can speak to the relationship between methylation and and longevity. So I

33:06
would say like okay when we talk about longevity it's usually about increasing our health span right you know kind of living as long as we can for as healthy

33:13
as we can because methylation is involved heavily in cardiovascular health and the top four causes of mortality happen to be cardiovascular

33:21
related um you know that would be one area is that when you have healthy methylation you you generally don't have

33:28
elevated homoysteine you have um lower a much lower risk of kind of cardiac arrest and stuff like that and in

33:35
general when you have both the double MTHFR gene you're just at a higher risk for for cardiac events. So that's that's number one.

33:45
The other is the relationship to dementia which is a little bit looser a little less evidence-based. that hasn't

33:52
been you know defined but um basically when methylation is balanced you could say you are less predisposed to dementia

34:02
or to neuro decline so there's there's that element as well and then there's a cellular health argument which is you know we all know

34:10
about NAD and then you know cellular death and all that kind of stuff and so um because there's another gene called PEMT that's

34:19
methyl methylation related adjacent I would and that's involved in the production of choline. And so what this means is that

34:27
methylation when optimised um allows you to have healthy cell membranes which allows you to produce NAD which means your mitochondria has more energy over

34:36
time. So to me, those would be like the main reasons. And then of course, you have the detoxification angle, which is if you're, you know, able to adequately

34:44
detox over the long haul. It means you don't accumulate toxins as much as other people. And if you're able to support

34:51
those pathways, you won't have the downstream effects, which we honestly don't know what they are yet, of the glyphosate, the microplastics,

35:00
all the stuff. To be honest, that's a wild card. We don't know the impact. At least I don't know the impact of what that's going to be like in 20 30 40

35:08
years because we've effectively conducted an experiment on our society by introducing these chemicals at scale and but that's undoubtedly going to

35:16
contribute to to longevity but also the health of our future gener of our next generation as well.

35:22
And what is the biggest myth about methylation or the MTFHR gene?

35:28
Yeah. Um, I think that the biggest myth is that you have to have MTHFR in order to optimise methylation. And you know,

35:37
methylation is really like a network or kind of a, you know, a pathway to be balanced. Similar the way that we talk about the nervous system. It's kind of

35:45
like you want to balance the nervous system, you want to balance methylation.

35:48
And it's and the other myth is that it's just about folate and taking B complexes and fixing it that way. And I have yet,

35:56
well, I've yet to meet like many people who have fixed it by just taking methyl B12 or methylolate. It usually involves

36:03
a lot more lifestyle factors, you know, usually like decreasing their toxic load, maybe not drinking anymore, etc.

36:10
Um, so I would think those are the big two. So most people when they hear, you know, methylation, they think, oh, it's MTHFR.

36:18
You know, what comes to mind is maybe some what Gary Brea was talking about.

36:21
Um and then they just assume that it has to do with B complexes when there's actually a lot of different levers you can use to optimise you know methylation

36:30
without taking B complexes actually. So if someone is healthy and they do like they seem healthy, they don't have any major symptoms but they might have the

36:38
gene which I do they can optimise the function of methylation by eating organ meats having bone broth or collagen

36:45
having creatine which is what you said but what about if someone has got really bad issues like what you had in the past what do they do then?

36:54
Yeah. Um [clears throat] well kind of depends on what those issues are exactly. um because they actually you

37:02
know undermethylation appears differently at different stages of life.

37:05
So for me it was chronic fatigue, brain fog. It's what I see a lot actually. So that's a very common one. You also have um conception you know kind of inability

37:13
to conceive. And then you also have pmenopause because of the role it you know we haven't talked about this that much but of the role in estrogen metabolism as well. Okay tell us. So no.

37:22
Um so there's those are like the three arcs that I've kind of seen is like okay people maybe feel pretty good and then perry menopause hits and they don't

37:30
right. And then then you also have the conception arc which is you know somewhere between 30 and 40 usually for most people and then you have the chronic fatigue and brain fog which could be you know throughout.

37:40
So um all you know but if someone is very symptomatic I would say there's methylation is one place to look. It's

37:48
it's a it really gives you a sense of what is your your bio-individualized way of supporting your biology um or your

37:56
physiology rather. And because everyone's a little different in that sense. So the other thing that I would do, so like you do your genetics, you know, there's a lot of great companies

38:05
out there. You know, I like selfdecode, there's Nebula, it doesn't matter. Just use one that that you like.

38:11
And get a sense of where you actually need support, like where are your weaker points from a genetic standpoint. And then you also want to look at, you know,

38:19
your typical factors, you know, your thyroid health, your toxic burden, um your hormones, etc. So there's, you

38:26
know, organic acids test looking at your gut. Um, I personally wouldn't rely on methylation or on your genes as a way to

38:34
diagnose any symptom really because your genetics are just telling you what your predispositions are or what your map is really like or what your terrain is

38:42
like, but your biomarkers are telling you like how they're performing today and whether those genes are expressed or unexpressed. because you could have the

38:51
double MTHFR but through you know um living a sound happy healthy life those genes could be turned off and be pretty

38:59
benign but you may reach other points in life where you need to support your methylation more because of whatever happens to be going on.

39:05
Yeah. So what is a good biomarkers test for all of this that you recommend?

39:09
Yeah. I mean the lab there's there's a lot of um so let's see for um you know I know about one I tell you but you tell me I tell you.

39:17
Okay. Okay. I mean nowadays there's just so many. So, I mean, personally, I like Great Plain Laboratories for organic acids tests. I know I think now it's called the Candida

39:26
um vitamins and something tests, but um so Great Plains is great. Um doctor's data is my favourite for the um hair

39:33
tissue mineral analysis test, which is a a lab that I'm a huge fan of.

39:37
Um for the stool test, you know, there's a few, but I guess Doctor's Data also has one as well. Um

39:46
and then for hormones, thyroid, all that kind of stuff. I mean, now there's so many. I mean, I've been experimenting personally. I've done, you know, Superpower. I've done Function Health.

39:55
I've done Life Force. I've gone to my local functional medicine doctor over in New York City.

40:01
Um, so, so I mean nowadays there's just so many options. Just, you know, choose one that works for your finances that, you know,

40:08
making sure that they're actually using the functional ranges though. Um because a lot of times for you know thyroid as an example they'll say that your your

40:18
TSH is healthy but it's you know at a three and that's already you know functionally unhealthy pretty much imbalance at that point. So as long as

40:26
you're just working with someone that is using functional ranges and not diagnostic ranges for disease and medications and you're good to go.

40:34
Yeah. Great advice. And so you said you had all these health issues when you were younger due to metilation. What did

40:41
you do about it and was was that the trigger point to create other way health? Uh it definitely was the trigger point.

40:48
So let's see. So I traced my symptoms back even before I got sick. I think I was symptomatic for like six or seven

40:55
years. Um I was you know had chronic fatigue really around the age of like 20ish and then I covered the symptoms using at

41:03
the time you know the ADD medication because I thought oh I'm tired and so I went the pharmaceutical route. Um and I also had trouble focusing and and so

41:12
that was helpful. I was basically covering my symptoms you know for about four to five years and then um you know at one point or you know about four

41:21
years in the stimulants just stopped working in the sense that they made me feel worse. So my heart I would get heart palpitations and just didn't

41:29
really get that that boost that I used to.

41:31
And then from there I got off the medications and was really depleted. Um, and that's kind of how I went on the

41:38
journey of going to doctors, being told, hey, there's your labs look fine. You seem like a healthy young man. And then that's how I eventually got into the

41:46
naturopathic health and functional medicine space. About maybe three or four doctors in, I finally found someone who had studied neutrogenomics to some

41:55
degree. And then they ran my genetics and, you know, found the MTHFR gene.

42:00
They also found the elevated heavy metals and said, "Hey, I think there's a connection here. You have this gene.

42:05
you're on, you know, a vegan diet for for many years and then, you know, you have these elevated heavy metals. I think there's a connection. And so I

42:13
started with, you know, becoming an omnivore. You know, this was in 2014, so there was less education around now you have all these like grass-fed beef

42:22
companies and all that. Um, fortunately, I lived in China for about five years.

42:26
And so I I already knew a lot about organ meats and eastern medicine. So that aspect kind of came intuitively to me even though I didn't have the

42:35
studies. I didn't know about the glycine and the collagen and all that stuff, but I brought that into my life.

42:40
And then um I started doing saunas, you know, literally, you know, 12 years ago, which was like kind of unusual, like a regular sauna user.

42:48
Um and I went on a a pretty strong chilation protocol that took about 6 months. And then that was a starting

42:56
point of you know taking you know methylation based products and I was taking phosphatidylcerene and and phosphatidylcholine in these like really

43:04
gross liquid formats um to support the cell membranes and you know at the time because I was you know deep in the world of Dave

43:12
Asprey at that moment. So I was trying all sorts of stuff that he would talk about on his podcast. So I went down the biohacking rabbit hole. Um but really it was just the fundamentals

43:20
honestly. It was just, you know, you know, basically the right supplementation, the right diet, um, you know, moving on a regular basis, and

43:28
then just making sure I was sweating and supporting my detox pathways. And then within, you know, a year, year and a half, I felt, you know, healthier than

43:36
ever. Felt exponentially better. And, you know, now I'm 38 years old and I feel like I have exponentially more energy than I did in my early 20s. And you look like a picture of hell.

43:44
Look at your hair. I love it. Okay, last two questions. Tell us about your company, what it is. uh and what do you provide and then the very last question

43:53
I ask every guest what is your favourite book?

43:56
Okay. Uh okay. So, as far as like how other way health started, um you know, I got I got healthier and then in 2018,

44:04
you know, because in order to get healthy, I actually went into about 50k of medical debt. Um which was really hard, you know, being 24 25 years old.

44:11
It was kind of like, you know, another student loan equivalent. And I started a YouTube channel talking about the intersection of, you know, genetics and health.

44:20
And people started reaching out to me and I was like, hey, I'm not a practitioner, but I can share my experiences. And on this YouTube channel, I was talking about, you know,

44:28
lab tests and, you know, protocols that I had done, some of which worked and some of which were a total waste of money. I did a lot of spent thousands of

44:35
dollars on labs that didn't really move the needle for my particular health journey. And so, and I and I felt upset about that, you know, at the whole

44:42
system and how difficult it was to find these answers. And so, um, through that experience of having a YouTube channel, I eventually came across Dr. Steven

44:51
Cabraw, um, naturopathic doctor based in Boston. And then I did both of his uh certification programs. And that's kind

44:58
of how I started a coaching practice of helping people that you know had similar experiences um through my YouTube channel. And through that I realised

45:06
that there was no direct consumer brand that was really talking about methylation in a way that people understand and really mapping it to the

45:13
things that people care about because not many people care about methylation and MTHFR and COMT and all these really niche pathways and genes, but they do

45:22
care about having energy. They care about not being overloaded with toxins. They care about having healthy children.

45:28
They want to have healthy hormones. And so other way is really about creating a simple ecosystem and speaking to people in a way that they understand about

45:37
methylation but really looking at methylation the same way that um gut health was relatively niche about 15 years ago. And now it's kind of entered

45:45
the mainstream health and wellness space in a big way. And so my vision for other ways like how can we bring methylation um into the health and wellness

45:54
consciousness um in a way that's approachable so that other people don't have to spend years of their life figuring this stuff out and really

46:01
wasting a big part of my my youth really um and just get back to life. So yeah, that's great. I love it. Okay, last question. What is your favourite book?

46:10
Oh, that's tough. So favourite book of all time or favourite book recently read? Either.

46:15
Okay. Um, let's see.

46:21
I think a book that I I I reread on a regular basis, it's a very simple book, but it's The Alchemist. I reread it like once every two years. And it and to me,

46:31
it kind of implies, you know, the hero's journey in many ways, kind of that, you know, especially as an entrepreneur, you kind of understand it kind of the es and flows.

46:40
Um there's one quote in particular that always stands out to me which is um the darkest hour of the night comes just before the dawn.

46:48
That's beautiful.

46:48
Yeah. And to me that um depicts like when you're down and out and it feels like there's no hope. That's when the light suddenly appears and you have to

46:56
persevere a little further. So um amazing great advice. Thank you so much for your time. That was really good. Thank you. Yeah, of course.

47:04
Thanks so much for [music] listening. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Achieve Life podcast for more [music] conversations on performance,

47:11
nutrition, and mindset. And we'll see you in the next episode.